12-09-2016, 03:00 PM
Do you know if we are at risk now at Unibet simply by having StackAndTile running in the background? Does Unibet have a clear stance on this?
12-09-2016, 03:00 PM
12-09-2016, 03:03 PM
I have messaged the Unibet rep who contacted me, lets see what he says. I don't see why this should be a problem at all, but again I have no idea about what they're looking for
12-10-2016, 01:48 AM
This was his response:
Quote:It's fine for someone to run your program in the background with the Unibet client open.
12-11-2016, 09:26 PM
Ok, thanks for the update. If Unibet asked you to remove their site from their software, then I have to assume they know that their site can be added manually. I'm not sure how they determine whether or not you are using Stack and Tile with their site, but they've made it clear now that it is a violation of the ToS to be using it. As a poker player, I am already assuming a lot of risk, so there is no need to add to that risk unnecessarily by giving them any grounds to seize my account funds.
Based on my dealings with them, I have to assume they are capable of seizing my funds based on something like this, that's why I asked for clarification.
Based on my dealings with them, I have to assume they are capable of seizing my funds based on something like this, that's why I asked for clarification.
12-12-2016, 01:45 AM
They didn't say that specifically SaT was a violation of their TOS. They said that using ANY helper software AT ALL is a violation of their TOS. It wasn't that SaT is in any way malicious. In fact the rep did say that he doesn't see any issue with my software from that standpoint.
I considered my options. In reality I can do whatever I want. I only care about my customers and what they want. That's my only obligation. However, I made my decision in the vein of "well I'm going to pro-actively protect my customers by removing support, even though they may still want the support".
Also, perhaps players were unaware of the rule, and now this brings it to their attention. I definitely don't want my customers to get their accounts banned and then Unibet tells them that they were banned because of using SaT. Then my customers blame me and its my fault. Now, at least everything is in the open.
I have no idea about seizing funds. It didn't *seem* that serious to me, but who knows. I guess it could definitely be a risk and something you don't want to take. I don't know to what extent they would go.
I considered my options. In reality I can do whatever I want. I only care about my customers and what they want. That's my only obligation. However, I made my decision in the vein of "well I'm going to pro-actively protect my customers by removing support, even though they may still want the support".
Also, perhaps players were unaware of the rule, and now this brings it to their attention. I definitely don't want my customers to get their accounts banned and then Unibet tells them that they were banned because of using SaT. Then my customers blame me and its my fault. Now, at least everything is in the open.
I have no idea about seizing funds. It didn't *seem* that serious to me, but who knows. I guess it could definitely be a risk and something you don't want to take. I don't know to what extent they would go.
12-12-2016, 04:22 PM
I had reviewed Unibet's policies prior to your most recent update and I determined that it was safe to use your software.
This is from their "Poker Games Rules v 1.6":
"15. You are not permitted to use any automatic gameplay, artificial intelligence including, without limitation, “robots” or any interaction within the Unibet poker that is not the direct result of you personally utilizing the Software for the purpose it was intended"
"16. You accept and acknowledge that we reserve the right, both at our sole discretion, to detect and prevent the use of prohibited programs, including but not limited to hand trackers, HUDs (heads up displays) and screen capture techniques. These steps may include, but are not limited to, examination of software programs running concurrently with the Unibet poker software on the Player’s device."
Based on this, it didn't seem that using SaT would be a violation of ToS, but from what I can tell their ToS are very loosely worded. They do not specify what "prohibited programs" are. This is why it is problematic that they do not come out and clearly say whether SaT is allowed or not. There can't be any grey area when it comes to something like this, because of how much money is at stake.
Can you maybe give me your 2+2 contact so that I can speak to him/her directly?
This is from their "Poker Games Rules v 1.6":
"15. You are not permitted to use any automatic gameplay, artificial intelligence including, without limitation, “robots” or any interaction within the Unibet poker that is not the direct result of you personally utilizing the Software for the purpose it was intended"
"16. You accept and acknowledge that we reserve the right, both at our sole discretion, to detect and prevent the use of prohibited programs, including but not limited to hand trackers, HUDs (heads up displays) and screen capture techniques. These steps may include, but are not limited to, examination of software programs running concurrently with the Unibet poker software on the Player’s device."
Based on this, it didn't seem that using SaT would be a violation of ToS, but from what I can tell their ToS are very loosely worded. They do not specify what "prohibited programs" are. This is why it is problematic that they do not come out and clearly say whether SaT is allowed or not. There can't be any grey area when it comes to something like this, because of how much money is at stake.
Can you maybe give me your 2+2 contact so that I can speak to him/her directly?
12-12-2016, 04:41 PM
I just found this on Google as well. This is a response regarding the request of getting hotkeys implemented into the software:
"Nope, afraid not. We've had a few requests for it but it's something that only really benefits mass multitablers. I don't really want to put those players off, but our priority is to keep casual players alive for longer, so that's where we'll spend development time." -Unibet Andrew
Based on that, and what I posted above, it doesn't seem like a good idea to use SaT with Unibet. I'm surprised the rep you spoke to said he did see an inherent problem with your software. I'm guessing it wasn't Unibet Andrew.
"Nope, afraid not. We've had a few requests for it but it's something that only really benefits mass multitablers. I don't really want to put those players off, but our priority is to keep casual players alive for longer, so that's where we'll spend development time." -Unibet Andrew
Based on that, and what I posted above, it doesn't seem like a good idea to use SaT with Unibet. I'm surprised the rep you spoke to said he did see an inherent problem with your software. I'm guessing it wasn't Unibet Andrew.
12-12-2016, 10:44 PM
(12-12-2016, 04:22 PM)Insideman Wrote: [ -> ]Based on this, it didn't seem that using SaT would be a violation of ToS, but from what I can tell their ToS are very loosely worded. They do not specify what "prohibited programs" are. This is why it is problematic that they do not come out and clearly say whether SaT is allowed or not. There can't be any grey area when it comes to something like this, because of how much money is at stake.
I haven't read the TOS. But I was told that the rule was for any and all helper software. If that is indeed the rule, then its more black and white. If there is no wording like that, then yes the TOS is gray area.
(12-12-2016, 04:41 PM)Insideman Wrote: [ -> ]I just found this on Google as well. This is a response regarding the request of getting hotkeys implemented into the software:
"Nope, afraid not. We've had a few requests for it but it's something that only really benefits mass multitablers. I don't really want to put those players off, but our priority is to keep casual players alive for longer, so that's where we'll spend development time." -Unibet Andrew
Based on that, and what I posted above, it doesn't seem like a good idea to use SaT with Unibet. I'm surprised the rep you spoke to said he did see an inherent problem with your software. I'm guessing it wasn't Unibet Andrew.
Thats probably the reasoning behind their rule. Yes the rep was 'UnibetAndrew' on 2p2. If you contact him and get a different answer, please let me know what he has to say about it.