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I have been using Stack and Tile for a while with tiling and have recently started experimenting with stacking and tiling because I am traveling with just my 15" laptop.

I am currently only using Stack and Tile for the Coral skin on ipoker. I have a 4 slot grid. #1 is the stack, #2 grid, #3 new tables and #4 old tables. I have it set up so that a table is moved to the grid when cards are dealt.

Under 'Advanced Options' I have 'Activate table when action required' and my hotkeys are sent to 'Table under mouse'. I also have 'Left mouse click detection', 'Drag and Drop to swap slots' and 'Move 888Poker popups to grid.

The issue I am experiencing seems to be primarily relating to tables in my stack, though I believe I have seen it occur in the grid too (including the new and old table slots). Essentially If I click on a table in the stack and say fold using a hotkey, sometimes a table will pop up for a split second and I will then fold on whatever table that was.

I've noticed that this only happens one time as far as I can tell. By that I mean that if an active table is on top that requires my action, the maximum amount of tables that will pop up before I complete my action is limited to one.

It also seems to happen near the beginning of a table popping up and thus I have been able to mitigate the damage somewhat by pausing for a second before I fold/bet/call.

I also think it's generally possible that Stack and Tile is not working as it's supposed to. I feel that sometimes tables are not moved back to the stack after they no longer require my attention (tables that are in th grid). It's a little hard for me to tell right now, because I am new to using Stack and Tile this way so I have no reference. For example, am I maybe not even supposed to be clicking on tables in the stack? Should it just be tables in the grid where I bet/fold/call?

Thanks.
(05-28-2014, 01:05 AM)Insideman Wrote: [ -> ]The issue I am experiencing seems to be primarily relating to tables in my stack, though I believe I have seen it occur in the grid too (including the new and old table slots). Essentially If I click on a table in the stack and say fold using a hotkey, sometimes a table will pop up for a split second and I will then fold on whatever table that was.
...
It's a little hard for me to tell right now, because I am new to using Stack and Tile this way so I have no reference. For example, am I maybe not even supposed to be clicking on tables in the stack? Should it just be tables in the grid where I bet/fold/call?

Ok its probably a combination of you not understanding the play set up as well as potentially some bugs. I will try to explain.

When using 'Play Mode' = Stack And Tile, tables will be moving from the stack and to the grid and back, similar to the demo video on the front page. If your 'Move to Grid' setting is either 'When Action Required' or 'When dealt cards', then you want to think of most of your play happening in the grid. Tables will pop to the top of the stack if there is no more grid slots available, so that you don't miss out on tables simply because your grid is full.

Realize that you have 4 slots, but slot #3 and #4 will not be used for playing tables, since you have directly assigned them for New and Old tables respectively. This limits you to only slot #2 as an available slot for tables to move out of the stack and into the 'grid'. So, a table in the stack has your cards visible, so it moves out of slot #1 and into slot #2. Now, slot #2 is occupied. If another table in the stack has cards visible, there are no more available slots. #2 is the only play slot, and #3 and #4 are for New and Old tables. So, since SaT has nowhere to move the table, it brings it to the top of the stack.

Now, SaT 'simulates' bringing the table to the top of the stack, by instead sending all the other tables to the bottom. This gives the effect of the table coming to the top, without explicitly giving it focus, because we don't want to potentially steal focus from another table in the grid. This MAY be the reason for the slight lag you notice. Another reason could be if SaT and iPoker are fighting to activate/focus a table. As mentioned on the iPoker help page, do you have these options turned off in your client?
http://www.stackandtile.com/sat/help/ipoker
http://www.stackandtile.com/sat/ipoker-focus.png

I like to think of the tables in the 'grid' as those that need my attention for any reason (action required, new table buyin, old table sitting out). Thats why I prefer to put New and Old tables into the 'grid' instead of into a specific slot #. New Tables will spawn in the grid, where you can buyin and then send it to the stack. Old Tables will pop into the next free gridslot, where you can see whats going on and sit back in. This would allow you to have slots #2,3,4 all as play slots, which will give you more room to play in. Right now, all of your play would happen in slot #2, but because slot #2 will likely always be full, then you would end up playing out of the stack out of necessity.

Since you are currently doing most of your play out of the stack, I would imagine that you are probably using a 'Send table to bottom' hotkey to allow you to "cycle" through the tables in the stack. This does work, however, this could also be causing your problem, because you are manually cycling through, then attempting to use your 'fold' hotkey, but then at the same type SaT is attempting to automatically pop a different table to the top of the stack.

Hope that all makes sense. Some people do report this issue from time to time, but usually its a matter of the poker client table focus setting being turned on. But I'm always willing to look into this type of problem because this is the worst kind of bug and the most difficult to iron out.

Quote:I also think it's generally possible that Stack and Tile is not working as it's supposed to. I feel that sometimes tables are not moved back to the stack after they no longer require my attention (tables that are in th grid).

By default, tables only move from the grid back to the stack when you either click Fold with your mouse, or you send a "Stack Table" hotkey. If you can clarify exactly what you mean by 'no longer require attention' then we can try to set it up how you want it.
(05-28-2014, 01:52 AM)SaT_Admin Wrote: [ -> ]Now, SaT 'simulates' bringing the table to the top of the stack, by instead sending all the other tables to the bottom. This gives the effect of the table coming to the top, without explicitly giving it focus, because we don't want to potentially steal focus from another table in the grid. This MAY be the reason for the slight lag you notice. Another reason could be if SaT and iPoker are fighting to activate/focus a table. As mentioned on the iPoker help page, do you have these options turned off in your client?
http://www.stackandtile.com/sat/help/ipoker
http://www.stackandtile.com/sat/ipoker-focus.png

iPoker wasn't stealing focus, I had that feature turned off in the client. I don't notice any lag, not sure what I wrote that gave that impression.

(05-28-2014, 01:52 AM)SaT_Admin Wrote: [ -> ]I like to think of the tables in the 'grid' as those that need my attention for any reason (action required, new table buyin, old table sitting out). Thats why I prefer to put New and Old tables into the 'grid' instead of into a specific slot #. New Tables will spawn in the grid, where you can buyin and then send it to the stack. Old Tables will pop into the next free gridslot, where you can see whats going on and sit back in. This would allow you to have slots #2,3,4 all as play slots, which will give you more room to play in. Right now, all of your play would happen in slot #2, but because slot #2 will likely always be full, then you would end up playing out of the stack out of necessity.

This is the way I had it originally, but if I do that then I have a lot of trouble buying in and sitting back in. This is because I constantly have tables popping up in front of the tables I am trying to buy in to or sit back in on. It's much easier if the tables are in a dedicated slot, because then no tables that require action can pop up in front of them. I can probably just put old and new tables in slot #4 though.

I mean if an old table is sent to the grid and there are more than 3 other tables that require action, then those will pop up over the table I am trying to sit back in on, so I guess it's sort of a race against those tables if I want to sit back in or buy in.

(05-28-2014, 01:52 AM)SaT_Admin Wrote: [ -> ]Since you are currently doing most of your play out of the stack, I would imagine that you are probably using a 'Send table to bottom' hotkey to allow you to "cycle" through the tables in the stack. This does work, however, this could also be causing your problem, because you are manually cycling through, then attempting to use your 'fold' hotkey, but then at the same type SaT is attempting to automatically pop a different table to the top of the stack.

I am not using a hotkey to "cycle" through the stack. Just completing whatever action was required from the table on top of the stack and this is when a table would pop up in-between.

I did however just play a session where I tried not to play out of the stack, as I realized that that probably isn't how Stack and Tile is supposed to be used when stacking and tiling. I achieved this by binding a 'Stack table' hotkey so that I wouldn't have to wait for the action to end on the table or to bring up a more urgent table, since I have Stack and Tile set to show me a table once cards are dealt. This might be an issue with just 4 table slots (especially with two reserved just for buying in and sitting back in), because I am basically trying to make things very similar to tiling, while not having enough screen real estate to pull that off.

Btw, while playing just out of the grid, I never saw a table flash in-between the current active table. It seems to solely be related to playing out of the stack (which I don't have to do).

(05-28-2014, 01:52 AM)SaT_Admin Wrote: [ -> ]By default, tables only move from the grid back to the stack when you either click Fold with your mouse, or you send a "Stack Table" hotkey. If you can clarify exactly what you mean by 'no longer require attention' then we can try to set it up how you want it.

I just tested this in play money to be sure but when I fold, the table is not moved back to the stack and I folded when action was required, not using the "fast fold" button.

What would happen if I turned off "Activate table when action required"? Would that change anything? The idea is whether or not I can prevent Stack and Tile from stealing focus or is that unavoidable? It's just highly impractical to take any sort of note right now or tag a player for example.

I also notice that "Sent table to stack at end of hand" is unticked in advanced options. Maybe this also has something to do with tables not moving back to the stack when I am "done" with them.

Basically, I wanted to be able to fold ahead of time, which is why I set Stack and Tile to show me a table when cards are dealt, but a lot of the time I can't make a fold or no-fold decision based on just my holding when there is still action before me. In my last session I used the 'Stack table' hotkey to mitigate this, but I was using it a lot and I feel that my usage of it is very inefficient, so maybe I'll change tables to only pop up when an action is required in the future.

I feel like when my hand is folded or when a hand ends, the table should definitely be going back into the stack.

Hope this clarifies my issues and thanks for your help so far, much appreciated.
(05-28-2014, 05:45 AM)Insideman Wrote: [ -> ]iPoker wasn't stealing focus, I had that feature turned off in the client. I don't notice any lag, not sure what I wrote that gave that impression.

Well, if only one table will pop in front of you in the stack, the symptom is that the table is slow to come to the top, causing you to misclick.

(05-28-2014, 05:45 AM)Insideman Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-28-2014, 01:52 AM)SaT_Admin Wrote: [ -> ]I like to think of the tables in the 'grid' as those that need my attention for any reason (action required, new table buyin, old table sitting out). Thats why I prefer to put New and Old tables into the 'grid' instead of into a specific slot #. New Tables will spawn in the grid, where you can buyin and then send it to the stack. Old Tables will pop into the next free gridslot, where you can see whats going on and sit back in. This would allow you to have slots #2,3,4 all as play slots, which will give you more room to play in. Right now, all of your play would happen in slot #2, but because slot #2 will likely always be full, then you would end up playing out of the stack out of necessity.

This is the way I had it originally, but if I do that then I have a lot of trouble buying in and sitting back in. This is because I constantly have tables popping up in front of the tables I am trying to buy in to or sit back in on. It's much easier if the tables are in a dedicated slot, because then no tables that require action can pop up in front of them. I can probably just put old and new tables in slot #4 though.

I mean if an old table is sent to the grid and there are more than 3 other tables that require action, then those will pop up over the table I am trying to sit back in on, so I guess it's sort of a race against those tables if I want to sit back in or buy in.

We must be misunderstanding each other based on terminology, because what you described is backwards to me.

If you are using dedicated slots for New tables and Old tables, then those slots will act as stacks. So you may be trying to buy in on a New Table, and then another New Table that just opened (from a pre-registered tournamnet, etc) will pop in front causing you difficulty.

If you instead put both into the grid, then no tables can pop in front of them, because each grid slot only allows 1 table in it. Those slots do not act as stacks. They hold 1 table only. So nothing can pop in front of them. Did you mean 'steal focus' instead of 'pop in front' ?


Quote:I am not using a hotkey to "cycle" through the stack. Just completing whatever action was required from the table on top of the stack and this is when a table would pop up in-between.

I did however just play a session where I tried not to play out of the stack, as I realized that that probably isn't how Stack and Tile is supposed to be used when stacking and tiling. I achieved this by binding a 'Stack table' hotkey so that I wouldn't have to wait for the action to end on the table or to bring up a more urgent table, since I have Stack and Tile set to show me a table once cards are dealt. This might be an issue with just 4 table slots (especially with two reserved just for buying in and sitting back in), because I am basically trying to make things very similar to tiling, while not having enough screen real estate to pull that off.

Btw, while playing just out of the grid, I never saw a table flash in-between the current active table. It seems to solely be related to playing out of the stack (which I don't have to do).

This is certainly one alternative. Basically you are moving tables back to the stack mid-hand.

Quote:
(05-28-2014, 01:52 AM)SaT_Admin Wrote: [ -> ]By default, tables only move from the grid back to the stack when you either click Fold with your mouse, or you send a "Stack Table" hotkey. If you can clarify exactly what you mean by 'no longer require attention' then we can try to set it up how you want it.

I just tested this in play money to be sure but when I fold, the table is not moved back to the stack and I folded when action was required, not using the "fast fold" button.

Did you turn off "Left mouse click detection" in Advanced Options? Because when that option is on, any mouse click on the Fold button is supposed to send the table from the grid back into the stack. If that's not working then something is definitely wrong.

However, noticing that you are talking about "fast fold"ing, I guess you are playing zoom/rush whatever, and this is also something that could affect things

Quote:What would happen if I turned off "Activate table when action required"? Would that change anything? The idea is whether or not I can prevent Stack and Tile from stealing focus or is that unavoidable? It's just highly impractical to take any sort of note right now or tag a player for example.

Yeah, that is SaT's option to give each table focus as action is required. You can try turning it off and see if that suits your play better.

Quote:I also notice that "Sent table to stack at end of hand" is unticked in advanced options. Maybe this also has something to do with tables not moving back to the stack when I am "done" with them.

Again, it depends on what you mean by "done". That option that you mentioned is used to automatically send tables back to the stack when the hand is over, either by going to showdown or by everyone else folding to your bet. However, I don't think it will work on zoom/rush tables, although I haven't tested it.

Quote:Basically, I wanted to be able to fold ahead of time, which is why I set Stack and Tile to show me a table when cards are dealt, but a lot of the time I can't make a fold or no-fold decision based on just my holding when there is still action before me. In my last session I used the 'Stack table' hotkey to mitigate this, but I was using it a lot and I feel that my usage of it is very inefficient, so maybe I'll change tables to only pop up when an action is required in the future.

The most common hotkey is to use the "Fold+Stack" hotkey, which will click fold and move the table back to the stack. Does this not accomplish what you're after?

Quote:I feel like when my hand is folded or when a hand ends, the table should definitely be going back into the stack.

For the first, it should definitely be happening when you click Fold with the mouse, as long as "Left mouse click detection" is enabled in Advanced Options. Alternatively, the "Fold+Stack" hotkey should do it.

For the second, when a hand 'ends', you'd need to enable the "Send table to stack at End of Hand" in advanced options. Although in my opinion this isn't that big of a deal, because even when the hand ends, you'll have a new hand and a new decision within seconds.
It seems we are misunderstanding each other in some spots. I'll try to be more precise with the terminology I use. Thanks for bearing with me.

(05-28-2014, 06:44 AM)SaT_Admin Wrote: [ -> ]Well, if only one table will pop in front of you in the stack, the symptom is that the table is slow to come to the top, causing you to misclick.

I'm not sure I understand this. If I can see the table and I click fold and it briefly switches to another table and I accidentally fold my hand there, are you saying this is because when I initially see the table it is not truly at the top of the stack, but still coming up? How can a table be at the top, but not truly at the top or am I thinking about this too strictly?

(05-28-2014, 06:44 AM)SaT_Admin Wrote: [ -> ]We must be misunderstanding each other based on terminology, because what you described is backwards to me.

If you are using dedicated slots for New tables and Old tables, then those slots will act as stacks. So you may be trying to buy in on a New Table, and then another New Table that just opened (from a pre-registered tournamnet, etc) will pop in front causing you difficulty.

If you instead put both into the grid, then no tables can pop in front of them, because each grid slot only allows 1 table in it. Those slots do not act as stacks. They hold 1 table only. So nothing can pop in front of them. Did you mean 'steal focus' instead of 'pop in front' ?

What I was saying was that if I have dedicated slots then it works and there are no problems, however if I don't use dedicated slots then there are issues. I am however no longer sure whether tables pop up in front of the tables I am trying to buy in to or not. That is how I perceived it at the time, but I think what may have been happening was that I was trying to open new tables whilst the grid was full. What would happen in that case? Also with allowing Stack and Tile to steal focus, it is very difficult to buy-in, because I would have to wait till there are no longer any tables that require focus (which basically won't happen if I keep on folding hands etc. and I am playing enough tables). I'll definitely try playing without allowing Stack and Tile to steal focus next and see what that does.

(05-28-2014, 06:44 AM)SaT_Admin Wrote: [ -> ]Did you turn off "Left mouse click detection" in Advanced Options? Because when that option is on, any mouse click on the Fold button is supposed to send the table from the grid back into the stack. If that's not working then something is definitely wrong.

No that is on but I didn't realize it only sends the table back when I click 'fold' and not when I use the 'fold' hotkey. That definitely explains away a lot of my confusion from how the software works. For example, sometimes I would left click a table, because it's something I would do with tiling when I am deciding whether I want to call or fold, but what this does is send the table back to the stack even though I haven't chosen to raise, call or fold. So basically the left click on the mouse is also a 'Stack table' hotkey with the 'Left mouse click detection' turned on right?

(05-28-2014, 06:44 AM)SaT_Admin Wrote: [ -> ]However, noticing that you are talking about "fast fold"ing, I guess you are playing zoom/rush whatever, and this is also something that could affect things

No, not playing rush, the reason I used the term "fast fold" was because I didn't know what else to call the fold box you can tick if you already know you want to fold in advance.

(05-28-2014, 06:44 AM)SaT_Admin Wrote: [ -> ]The most common hotkey is to use the "Fold+Stack" hotkey, which will click fold and move the table back to the stack. Does this not accomplish what you're after?

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

rojs

@insideman read again more carefully, you understood some things wrong

@greg

I have the same problem as him. I play stack and tiled on a custom site, every thing works fine except the fold button. If the tables are in the grid they wont go back in the stack by neither a hotkey or a click (have the LMB detection enabled). And if i try to click with a mouse inside the fold button in the stack it loses focus to the next table in line!? Only when i hover my mouse over the fold button in the stack that happens (only if another table needs attention)

I have no idea what to do. I just started playing on this site, its in flash player, i am playing in a browser, called adjarabet. I did long time ago successfully created a custom site for dollaropoker, its the same "software" as adjarabet uses.

Tried everything: created like 10 custom sites, everything running as admin, different scan modes, LMC detection on/off, hotkeys on/off

Only thing i can change is the action button as only fold button is the same color

If i used hotkeys only in the stack and a fold+stack button in the grid it would solve my problems. But the software is already like it came from hell, i cant even seat at the same spot, cant use the betslider with mouse, and the betsize button are x2 x3 x5 and you can change them

Have no idea what to do, please help
(05-28-2014, 08:12 AM)Insideman Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-28-2014, 06:44 AM)SaT_Admin Wrote: [ -> ]Well, if only one table will pop in front of you in the stack, the symptom is that the table is slow to come to the top, causing you to misclick.

I'm not sure I understand this. If I can see the table and I click fold and it briefly switches to another table and I accidentally fold my hand there, are you saying this is because when I initially see the table it is not truly at the top of the stack, but still coming up? How can a table be at the top, but not truly at the top or am I thinking about this too strictly?

Yeah, so the original table is currently at the top of the stack. But perhaps it is not the 'most urgent', and SaT is in process of scanning the stack where it finds another table and brings that to the top. The 'lag' would be SaT being too slow to bring the other table to the top. The problem is that its very difficult to diagnose this problem because its very difficult to reproduce.

Quote:What I was saying was that if I have dedicated slots then it works and there are no problems, however if I don't use dedicated slots then there are issues.

Right I got that, and would have expected the opposite.

Quote:I am however no longer sure whether tables pop up in front of the tables I am trying to buy in to or not. That is how I perceived it at the time, but I think what may have been happening was that I was trying to open new tables whilst the grid was full. What would happen in that case?

Ah yes, so if you have New Tables = 'grid', and your grid is already full, then when you open a New Table, it will just open wherever the poker site puts it and stay there until a grid slot frees up. I am open to suggestions to handling that differently but so far that has been the best solution.

Quote: Also with allowing Stack and Tile to steal focus, it is very difficult to buy-in, because I would have to wait till there are no longer any tables that require focus (which basically won't happen if I keep on folding hands etc. and I am playing enough tables). I'll definitely try playing without allowing Stack and Tile to steal focus next and see what that does.

Yeah I understand. However, once you click away from the most urgent table, and give another window focus, SaT is supposed to give up and not attempt to steal focus back until you take action on one of your tables, indicating that you intend to be back to playing. This was the idea anyway. In practice things get hectic and perhaps this isn't working well.

Quote:
(05-28-2014, 06:44 AM)SaT_Admin Wrote: [ -> ]Did you turn off "Left mouse click detection" in Advanced Options? Because when that option is on, any mouse click on the Fold button is supposed to send the table from the grid back into the stack. If that's not working then something is definitely wrong.

No that is on but I didn't realize it only sends the table back when I click 'fold' and not when I use the 'fold' hotkey. That definitely explains away a lot of my confusion from how the software works. For example, sometimes I would left click a table, because it's something I would do with tiling when I am deciding whether I want to call or fold, but what this does is send the table back to the stack even though I haven't chosen to raise, call or fold. So basically the left click on the mouse is also a 'Stack table' hotkey with the 'Left mouse click detection' turned on right?

Sort of, but only when you click on the 'fold' button. The option underneath it allows you to also send the table to the stack after 'call' and 'bet' mouseclicks as well. You can read about the options here:
http://www.stackandtile.com/sat/help/advanced-options

If you haven't chosen to raise, call, or fold, and merely just clicked randomly on the middle of the table, then the table should not be moving.
Not exactly. As explained on the Advanced Options help page:

Quote:
(05-28-2014, 06:44 AM)SaT_Admin Wrote: [ -> ]However, noticing that you are talking about "fast fold"ing, I guess you are playing zoom/rush whatever, and this is also something that could affect things

No, not playing rush, the reason I used the term "fast fold" was because I didn't know what else to call the fold box you can tick if you already know you want to fold in advance.

Oh ok gotcha. I never knew what to call that either, and settled on "the pre-action fold checkbox".
(05-28-2014, 12:21 PM)rojs Wrote: [ -> ]@greg

I have the same problem as him.

I'm not sure that this is the same problem. I'm gonna duplicate your post in a new thread just to keep things organized. Lets diagnose your issues there:
http://www.stackandtile.com/forum/showth...hp?tid=813