Tables jumping in front.

[SNGrinder]

I've experimented with turning the "popup whenever user action is required" box checked or unchecked in Stars, as well as turning the first checkbox in SaT's Advanced Options on or off. Either way the problem still occurs, but it seems to happen less often when I have the first checkbox in SaT's Advanced Options unchecked, and the "popup whenever user action is required" box turned on in Stars. Also, since I play so many tables, using the option in Stack and Tile alone is too slow...there seems to be a delay before bringing up the new table every time, where as if I use the option for Stars to do it, the next tables always comes up immediately. I don't know what other issues this may cause, but I haven't experienced any except the one I'm describing here. And like I said, even when I turn the option off in Stars and turn the option on under Stack and Tile's advanced options, the problem actually occurs more often and things are even more hectic.

2) I will run a test tomorrow before my session with the highlight active window action checked and see what kind of results I get.

3) I haven't added any custom files. I don't even know how to do that I used to have "Move to Grid" = Never...and I have custom hotkeys to move tables in and out of the stack manually, rather than have it happen automatically. It is a lot easier for me to keep track of tables this way. However, the past couple days I have set "Move to Grid" = After entering pot. The tables pop out of the stack some of the time, but I would say the majority of the time that I raise or call or limp, the tables don't jump out of the stack like they are supposed to while using this option.

[SaT_Admin]

I've experimented with turning the "popup whenever user action is required" box checked or unchecked in Stars, as well as turning the first checkbox in SaT's Advanced Options on or off. Either way the problem still occurs, but it seems to happen less often when I have the first checkbox in SaT's Advanced Options unchecked, and the "popup whenever user action is required" box turned on in Stars. Also, since I play so many tables, using the option in Stack and Tile alone is too slow...there seems to be a delay before bringing up the new table every time, where as if I use the option for Stars to do it, the next tables always comes up immediately. I don't know what other issues this may cause, but I haven't experienced any except the one I'm describing here. And like I said, even when I turn the option off in Stars and turn the option on under Stack and Tile's advanced options, the problem actually occurs more often and things are even more hectic.

The problem with running both of those options on, is that its quite possible that both Stars and SaT are fighting to activate/focus tables. And this might be what you're noticing. However, in that case, I would think you wouldn't necessarily see the pattern of the same original table appearing for a split second. That's why I think its something SaT is doing.

2) I will run a test tomorrow before my session with the highlight active window action checked and see what kind of results I get.

The reason I ask about if it occurs when tables in grid require action or not, is because I'm looking for a specific way to reproduce the problem. Such as, "when I do X,Y,Z the bug occurs every time. "

I'm assuming that you regularly have tables moved into the grid via your manual hotkeys, that's why I thought of this potential cause. So please check if it happens when tables in the grid that require action.

3) I haven't added any custom files. I don't even know how to do that I used to have "Move to Grid" = Never...and I have custom hotkeys to move tables in and out of the stack manually, rather than have it happen automatically. It is a lot easier for me to keep track of tables this way. However, the past couple days I have set "Move to Grid" = After entering pot. The tables pop out of the stack some of the time, but I would say the majority of the time that I raise or call or limp, the tables don't jump out of the stack like they are supposed to while using this option.

Hrmm, maybe with 20 tables SaT just cannot keep up with all of the mouse clicks. And I'm guessing you still have the default "Left mouse click detection" turned on in Advanced Options. That is a prerequisite for SaT to detect mouse clicks.

Have you tried using call/bet hotkeys?

[SNGrinder]

I've only been playing 12-16 tables over the past week while we try to sort this out, and it has still been happening often. So I don't think the number of tables is the cause (but I'm no expert of course).

I do have the left click detection option checked.

I use a hotkey for betting and folding, but I don't use one for calling.

I'll run the test today with the highlighting active table and let you know if I see anything.

[SaT_Admin]

I use a hotkey for betting and folding, but I don't use one for calling.

Hotkeys within SaT right? Not Stars hotkeys or TableNinja?

Using SaT's 'Bet' hotkey should always be moving the table out of stack and into grid when you use Move To Grid = After Entering Pot. This would be really strange if not.

I'll run the test today with the highlighting active table and let you know if I see anything.

Make sure to check whether the bug ends up happening when a table in the grid is the one that requires action and is highlighted. And also if it ever happens when the grid is empty.

[SNGrinder]

I've been using the Stars hotkeys for betting, rather than S&T's. That should help with moving the tables to the grid, then...but do you think this would have an affect on the other problem?

Okay, after some testing, these are the things I am pretty certain of. Hopefully they'll help shed some light on this problem.

1) The "initial table" gets put next in line when it disappears, which is why it shows up for a split second after I act on the new table. I know this because I have a hotkey set to go to "next in line" through Tableninja, and when I press it, it goes to the initial table (once again, only for a split second before the new table pops back in front).

2) The problem occurs whether or not I have any tables in the grid. This doesn't seem to matter.

3) I've never experienced a case where the "new" table stealing focus was in the grid. It seems to always be a table from the stack that is jumping in front.

4) The problem doesn't seem to occur to tables that are already in the grid when I'm dealt a hand. HOWEVER, once the problem occurs on a table and I catch it in time to move it to the grid, this doesn't fix the issue on that table. So moving the table to the grid doesn't fix it, it just seems that the problem doesn't target tables that are in the grid at the start of a hand.

5) After I moved the initial table to the grid, it refuses to "stay in front". Even if the tables around it don't have any available action for me, they still jump in front. I'll give an example: My grid tables overlap slightly...so when I go to click "call" on the "initial table" that I've moved to the grid, often times other tables will still jump in front and overlap parts of the initial table so I can't act. I can move the table around until I find a spot where I can get to the proper actions, but I felt like this was important to say because it shows that other tables are jumping in front of this initial table no matter what (even when it's not my turn to act). Which is weird to me, considering it has that table listed as "next in line".

Would is be worthwhile to create an entirely new layout? I use the hyper-simple theme is that makes any difference, by the way.

Let me know if there is anything else I should try.

[SaT_Admin]

I've been using the Stars hotkeys for betting, rather than S&T's. That should help with moving the tables to the grid, then...but do you think this would have an affect on the other problem?

Ok, this is definitely the problem for your Move To Grid = After Entering Pot issue. If you want to continue to use Stars built in hotkeys instead of SaT, then you would need to set up 'External VPIP' hotkeys within SaT to match those Stars hotkeys for bet/call. I don't recommend doing it this way. I prefer users to use SaT's hotkeys for it all. But some people do it this way or they use TN for their betpot hotkeys and similarly set up External VPIP hotkeys in SaT.

1) The "initial table" gets put next in line when it disappears, which is why it shows up for a split second after I act on the new table. I know this because I have a hotkey set to go to "next in line" through Tableninja, and when I press it, it goes to the initial table (once again, only for a split second before the new table pops back in front).

I'm not sure how TN determines the 'next in line'. So this doesn't really provide us any new information. In fact, this actually can confuse the issue somewhat. I wonder if there is some feature in TN that is conflicting with SaT or Stars.

We need to narrow down what is causing the problem specifically before we can attempt to bug fix it. I have some things for you to test at the bottom.

2) The problem occurs whether or not I have any tables in the grid. This doesn't seem to matter.

Ok. I thought it would only occur if you had tables in the grid. So maybe the problem is not what I had thought.

3) I've never experienced a case where the "new" table stealing focus was in the grid. It seems to always be a table from the stack that is jumping in front.

Right I understand. To be clear, both tables of this problem are tables in the stack, right? The initial table is in the stack, and another stack table steals focus and comes on top of it in the stack?

I was previously curious if these tables would jump in front of each other only when there was a table in the grid that also required action.

4) The problem doesn't seem to occur to tables that are already in the grid when I'm dealt a hand. HOWEVER, once the problem occurs on a table and I catch it in time to move it to the grid, this doesn't fix the issue on that table. So moving the table to the grid doesn't fix it, it just seems that the problem doesn't target tables that are in the grid at the start of a hand.

5) After I moved the initial table to the grid, it refuses to "stay in front". Even if the tables around it don't have any available action for me, they still jump in front. I'll give an example: My grid tables overlap slightly...so when I go to click "call" on the "initial table" that I've moved to the grid, often times other tables will still jump in front and overlap parts of the initial table so I can't act. I can move the table around until I find a spot where I can get to the proper actions, but I felt like this was important to say because it shows that other tables are jumping in front of this initial table no matter what (even when it's not my turn to act). Which is weird to me, considering it has that table listed as "next in line".

Would is be worthwhile to create an entirely new layout? I use the hyper-simple theme is that makes any difference, by the way.

Yes, very useful info. The fact that you overlap grid tables might actually help us find this bug. I don't think creating a new layout should matter.

The "next in line" is irrelevant because that is something specific to TN and I don't know how they are keeping track of tables.

Since you point out that when you move this initial table into grid, other tables that don't require action will jump in front of it, then I assume that for normal working tables, those tables stay on top in the grid, and other tables do not jump in front? I just want to confirm the normal state for your setup, and that this bug is only specific to certain tables.

Finally, yes thank you for telling me that you use HyperSimple. This theme has had a specific issue in the past.

Please test/confirm the following:

1. When you ran this test, are you certain that the tables moved out of the stack and into the grid only after it was your turn to act? HyperSimple has a known issue where tables will move to the grid prematurely when you are dealt cards, instead of when action is required. Its not actually when you are dealt cards, but rather when the pre-action fold checkbox is visible. This is because that checkbox is the same light blue color as the actual fold button itself. So please confirm that test for me once more.

2. Can you test and see if this issue happens with TN off, Stars 'Pop table to front' off, and only SaT on?

3. If still not solved, then with TN still off, I would then want you to test using a different Stars theme, just to see if this is the problem. Change your table theme within Stars, and then remove PokerStarsHyperSimple from SaT and Include the appropriate Stars site within SaT. Then test and see if the problem persists.

[SNGrinder]

1) Yes, they are both in the stack. And it occurs even when there are no tables in the grid.

2) Under normal circumstances, the table under mouse comes to the front. However, when the bug is happening, the table only comes to the front for a split second, before the overlapping tables all push the initial table underneath them.

3) I've had no issues with tables moving to the grid too early.

4) I will run these tests today and get back to you.

[SaT_Admin]

2) Under normal circumstances, the table under mouse comes to the front. However, when the bug is happening, the table only comes to the front for a split second, before the overlapping tables all push the initial table underneath them.

Hrmmmm.. this is new info. I did not know you were using the feature to activate/focus the table underneath the mouse. Are you using SaT's option for this or TN?

[SNGrinder]

1) I have tableninja's target table mode set to "table under mouse"...there is no option to turn it off, I have to pick either that or table in foreground. I DON'T use the option in Stack and Tile to activate table under mouse.

2) I tested it with tableninja turned off and the pop up option on Stars turned off, and the option turned on for Stack and Tile under advanced options. I think the problem was still occurring, but it's hard to tell because there is a much longer delay between the tables popping up...so I may have just been acting on the initial table before another table forced it's way in front of it.

3) Good news...when I changed my table theme to PokerstarsBlack, the problem went away. So it seems it is an issue with the HyperSimple theme. This is a shame, because I've grown really accustomed to that theme and it will take some time getting used to a new theme. My eyes are used to looking at certain parts of the table to get information immediately, so it definitely makes things more difficult to act quickly. In the longrun I'll be fine though, I just have to get used to it. However, if there a way to fix this issue soon, I'd much rather use HyperSimple. In the meantime, though, I'll stick with PokerstarsBlack and I'll let you know if the problem arises again. Maybe I just got lucky today and it didn't happen for the last few hours of my session when I was using Black.

[SaT_Admin]

1) I have tableninja's target table mode set to "table under mouse"...there is no option to turn it off, I have to pick either that or table in foreground. I DON'T use the option in Stack and Tile to activate table under mouse.

Target table just means the table to send the hotkeys to. That shouldn't matter. I thought you were using a feature where a table would pop to the front and take focus whenever you moused over it.

3) Good news...when I changed my table theme to PokerstarsBlack, the problem went away. So it seems it is an issue with the HyperSimple theme. This is a shame, because I've grown really accustomed to that theme and it will take some time getting used to a new theme. My eyes are used to looking at certain parts of the table to get information immediately, so it definitely makes things more difficult to act quickly. In the longrun I'll be fine though, I just have to get used to it. However, if there a way to fix this issue soon, I'd much rather use HyperSimple. In the meantime, though, I'll stick with PokerstarsBlack and I'll let you know if the problem arises again. Maybe I just got lucky today and it didn't happen for the last few hours of my session when I was using Black.

Hrmmm ok. The problem is probably the problem described here. If you want to go back to HyperSimple, check out the #2 issue on the Stars help page:
http://www.stackandtile.com/sat/help/pokerstars

Follow this link to 2p2 for a graphics change to make. Specifically you will be changing the color of the the pre-action fold checkbox so that it will not be the same light blue color as the actual Fold button.